Sylvio Lindenberg, Co-Founder and CMO at Quartile, and Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon, discuss the constantly evolving e-commerce landscape
In an exclusive interview, Sylvio Lindenberg, Co-Founder and CMO at Quartile, and Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon, discuss the continuous evolution of Amazon and tips for a successful marketing strategy. They cover how to effectively leverage customer data and the Amazon Marketing Cloud (AMC), how Prime Video opens more advertising opportunities, and key learnings from the holiday season. Jeff emphasized the importance of adaptability and focusing on alternative key performance indicators (KPIs). “Brand-building KPIs must shift,” Jeff says. “We're no longer aiming for a simple conversion—we're after continuous engagement.”
Read the conversation to learn how retailers can build their brand, reach new audiences, and achieve sustainable growth. Watch the interview for the in-depth discussion.
Tapping into customer experience and shopping behaviors
Sylvio Lindenberg, Co-Founder and CMO at Quartile: Advertising API Evangelist is an intriguing title. How would you describe your role at Amazon to those who are unfamiliar?
Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon: I help our partners navigate Amazon ads technology, integrate it into their product roadmaps, and relay their feedback to our product teams. I also share feedback from our team with partners to keep them in the loop about Amazon's direction.
Amazon regularly introduces new products and features. We collaborate with exceptional partners, such as Quartile, to understand your customers' needs and how to align our technical roadmaps. Quartile is an important partner for sharing feedback in the early stages, which helps shape our betas, drive product development, and even launch entirely new products. Our collaboration is evident in products such as Amazon Marketing Stream. We gathered feedback from Quartile—an early adopter in that closed beta—and your advertisers to gauge how to present information, frequency, and the types of data sets needed. That helped Amazon create the product that we brought to market.
Sylvio: With those goals in mind, what improvements do you envision for the Amazon customer experience?
Jeff: Improving the shopping experience on Amazon is challenging because it’s already quite intuitive. However, if I had to pick, enhancing the ability to use natural language with the search engine could lead to additional product discovery. The industry seems to be moving in that direction. Something around search and the ability to take conceptually what's in my head and get closer to the product that I want and discover new products.
Sylvio: Speaking of discovery, Amazon excels when shoppers have a specific item in mind. However, there may be untapped opportunities for occasions like Mother's Day, where shoppers are looking for gift recommendations.
Jeff: Definitely. When I compare the e-commerce experience to the brick-and-mortar shopping experience, the ability to walk down an aisle and find inspiration is missing online in general. Efforts are underway to address this, but it's also about considering different customer behaviors. Catering to the shopping habits of different age demographics is a balancing act for e-commerce retailers, because each group has different preferences, and you have to create something that works for all of them.
Sylvio: I'm always interested in how my kids approach their Amazon searches. The other day, my son needed duct tape for his science project. He typed, "I need duct tape for my science project," providing extra context. In the future, AI may be able to differentiate a 12-year-old's search from someone else's.
"I always encourage brands to put themselves in their shoppers' shoes. What search terms are they using? What questions are they asking? What actions are they taking? Those questions are a critical part of understanding your ICP." —Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon
Jeff: Exactly. If someone is buying tape to wrap a birthday gift, the search engine may assume they need scotch tape. If it's for a science project, the search may lead to electrical tape or something more durable. It's crucial for brands to understand their customers' language, questions, and actions, and adapt to various age groups.
I always encourage brands to put themselves in the shoes of their shopper. What search terms are they using? What questions are they asking? What actions are they taking? Those questions are a critical part of the research phase and understanding your ideal customer profile (ICP).
Tapping into customer data and reaching new audiences with AMC
Sylvio: AMC data is often so rich that it's hard to process all the information. How can brands and sellers leverage AMC effectively?
Jeff: It's a clean room that offers safe access to an abundance of data signals related to shoppers and buyers, allowing retailers to aggregate them and identify emerging trends. AMC provides insights into the path to purchase that we didn’t have before, providing a multitouch attribution perspective. This transcends last-touch attribution models, where credit was only given to the final ad the shopper saw before completing a purchase. It also helps identify lookalike audiences, allowing brands to target specific customer profiles. Brands can then tailor campaigns to attract new customers or reengage past customers. It's an evolving tool that opens opportunities for expansion.
Sylvio: How can aggregated data help brands understand and target diverse customer segments?
Jeff: The challenge lies in processing billions of signals to create comprehensive customer profiles. Tools such as Quartile and AMC can process these signals to uncover ICPs that brands may not have considered. This enables brands to think beyond traditional customer personas. The key is to adopt a test-and-learn mentality. Use these tools to identify potential new markets and test campaigns targeting these segments. It's a gradual process of building awareness, consideration, and, ultimately, conversion.
Sylvio: Building a brand requires gradual investment and reinvestment, testing, and learning over time. It's not an overnight process but a strategic effort to nurture and expand audiences.
Jeff: Absolutely. Building a brand is an investment that takes patience and a strategic approach. It's not a quick fix but a gradual process that yields results over time.
"The proliferation of mobile devices and shoppers spending considerable time on them creates an opportunity for brands to place themselves where their customers are." —Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon
Sylvio: Circling back to the purchase funnel, retailers can allocate their budget to ensure sales targets while reserving part of it for testing. The fragmentation of AMC and diverse audience profiles allow for testing different messages.
Jeff: Being early gives you an advantage. The challenge for brands today is the historical division between performance marketing and brand spend. Amazon, evolving into a brand-building platform, has various touchpoints including Thursday Night Football and Alexa. Amazon Publisher Services extends these ads to third-party opportunities.
Sylvio: How can brands and sellers leverage videos to reach new audiences?
Jeff: Video holds immense potential for reaching broader audiences. Amazon has a unique advantage with its extensive customer data, Amazon Prime's wide reach, and the general effectiveness of video content. Because shoppers spend hours on mobile devices, brands can use video to showcase products, establish brand awareness, and entertain.
The proliferation of mobile devices and shoppers spending considerable time on them creates an opportunity for brands to place themselves where their customers are. Video allows for product demonstrations, brand messaging, and engagement. It's not necessarily easy to execute, but with tools like iPhones, brands can create impactful videos without extensive setups.
Shifting from conversion KPIs to deeper audience engagement
Sylvio: Amazon is often viewed as a lower-funnel, transactional platform, but it has evolved into a powerful brand-building tool. Is it time for retailers to reevaluate their KPIs?
Jeff: Yes. For brand building, KPIs should focus on audience engagement and actions taken. Understanding audience interest through metrics such as video view duration is critical. Brands should aim for deeper engagement and measure incremental impact with metrics such as new-to-brand sales. The beauty of AMC's fragmentation and the diverse customer profiles it creates allows brands to test different messages across various audiences. Analytical tools have become key for deciphering the data, and this current landscape presents a unique opportunity.
“For brand building, KPIs should focus on audience engagement and actions taken. Understanding audience interest through metrics such as video view duration is critical.” —Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon
Sylvio: Being early in this space provides a competitive advantage, even if others catch up eventually. One challenge is overcoming traditional divisions within larger brands that separate performance marketing spend and brand spend.
Jeff: Absolutely. Brands are beginning to realize that using Amazon as a brand-building tool requires reallocating budget from their traditional brand budget. However, the metrics for measuring success differ in this context.
Sylvio: What other KPIs should retailers consider when aiming for a more sophisticated approach to brand building and sustainable growth?
Jeff: Conversion-based metrics, such as advertising cost of sales (ACoS), total advertising cost of sales (TACoS), and return on ad spend (ROAS), are essential but can be limiting for brand-building activities. Multitouch attribution helps understand performance directionally, but when investing in multiple channels, retailers must consider a more holistic perspective. For example, AMC allows us to compare the impact of running a Sponsored Product ad alone versus in tandem with a Sponsored Display ad. If the overall ROAS improves, it indicates the need to invest in multiple channels for customer acquisition.
Brand-building KPIs must shift. We're no longer aiming for a simple conversion—we're after continuous engagement. For video campaigns, metrics may include video views, how many people watched, view duration, and subsequent actions taken. By stacking these metrics, we identify highly interested audiences, which allows for targeted campaigns.
Another important aspect is assessing incremental sales. Instead of relying solely on ROAS, focusing on new-to-brand sales provides insights into the campaign's ability to attract new customers. This holds true whether you're an Amazon seller or a brand outside the platform. AMC's flexibility allows incorporating first-party data from various sources for a comprehensive view of advertising impacts.
Metrics including customer lifetime value, cost to acquire a customer, and similar marketing principles are vital. Drawing parallels to my experience at a SaaS company, understanding customer worth, longevity, and affordable marketing spend for acquisition is a key mindset shift for optimizing advertising on Amazon.
"New-to-brand sales is a key metric that has a compounding effect over time. It's essential to break free from the idea that success is instant and recognize that even iconic brands have had their challenges and growth phases." —Sylvio Lindenberg, Co-Founder and CMO at Quartile
Sylvio: For recurring or consumable products, understanding the value of acquiring a single customer and nurturing them is critical for sustainable growth. New-to-brand sales is a key metric that has a compounding effect over time. It's essential to break free from the idea that success is instant and recognize that even iconic brands have had their challenges and growth phases.
Jeff: Yes. For emerging brands, focusing solely on ROAS may limit their potential, particularly if they have a unique market position. The key is to recognize when to invest in branded search, aligning with the development of brand equity and consumer recognition. Start small, understand the metrics along the way, and gradually scale your advertising efforts.
Holiday season learnings and strategies
Sylvio: What are some key learnings from Q4, and what recommendations do you have for brands and sellers preparing for the next holiday season?
Jeff: Q4 was notably successful, with the shopping season starting earlier. Amazon's Prime Big Deal Day in October marked the kickoff, necessitating early Q4 inventory planning and promotional strategy development. Pacing budgets throughout the period is crucial, given the trend of faster decision-making by shoppers. Events like Thursday Night Football and the Black Friday NFL game on Prime Video demonstrated further engagement opportunities.
Considering changes in purchase behaviors during the holidays allows for strategic adjustments. Investing in tentpole events, such as a homepage takeover or large ad campaigns, can act as seed investments to build and engage larger audiences for the holiday season.
The shift in customer behavior, especially during gifting seasons, changes purchase criteria. Packaging and unique value propositions become especially important during these periods. Evaluating Q4 provides valuable insights for future planning. Staying adaptable in an ever-changing industry, capturing learnings from events throughout the year, and incorporating those insights into your marketing plans are key for sustainable success.
Sylvio: Absolutely. The uncertainty surrounding the exact timing of fall Prime Day doesn't prevent retailers from preparing for it. The evolving nature of events like the Turkey 5—the five days from Thanksgiving to Cyber Monday—extending beyond five days highlights the need for adaptable marketing strategies.
Jeff: Brands should proactively anticipate and plan for Prime Day in the fall and summer, allowing flexibility in case of any adjustments. Consumer interest in such events remains evident, emphasizing the importance for brands to capitalize on these opportunities.
“I'm a strong advocate for collaborating with organizations like Quartile because they possess the technological capabilities to integrate the latest advancements at Amazon." —Jeff Cohen, Advertising API Evangelist at Amazon
Solutions for leveraging the latest Amazon tools and resources
Sylvio: Are there any specific recommendations you have for brands and sellers regarding Amazon tools and resources?
Jeff: Definitely. I'm a strong advocate for collaborating with organizations like Quartile because they possess the technological capabilities to integrate the latest advancements at Amazon. While many functionalities eventually make their way to the advertising council for broader access, working with a partner allows advertisers to scale and leverage these features more comprehensively.
Accessing all these tools at scale, incorporating data science, and automating aspects of advertising for enhanced efficiency and effectiveness—this is where a partnership truly shines. I believe it's still early days at Amazon, especially in the realm of Amazon Ads. The buzz around AI persists in 2024, and we'll witness its continued evolution. Quartile and Amazon Ads were built on AI before it was a trend, and we continue to evolve. We’ll make more advertising space available, especially on channels like Prime Video.
Our goal is to democratize TV streaming, allowing brands to explore it without budget constraints. These developments are exciting for advertisers seeking to expand their reach, connect with new shoppers, and measure their results effectively.
Please note that the interview has been edited for clarity and brevity in its written presentation.
